What I woke up to...

[deguspice]

What I woke up to...



Before I bought my house, someone bought a piece of land diagonally across from my house, it came with a restriction that he could only build one house on the 17 acres. It only has a narrow strip of land facing the street. After he bought the land, he approached the neighbors with a sob story that he wanted to get the restriction removed so he could build two houses, one for him, and one for his son (who we later found out was 5 years old). The neighbors and the town agreed to his request. But soon afterwards he was asking the town for permission to build an 11 house subdivision.

I joined a couple of neighbors who were challenging the project. Eventually we ended up in court and he lost. A few years later, he tried again. This time for a 6 house subdivision (while we were waiting for the judge to make a decision, a couple of beavers dammed a stream running through the property and created a large pond and reduced the amount of land available for building (not that it really was buildable before the beavers got involved).

After 13 years and many appeals, he finally got permission to build, and yesterday they began cutting down the trees. This morning someone dropped off a large load of hay bales, partially blocking the road. It's in a really bad location, because in a curve in the road, so cars can't easily see past the pile. A few minutes ago, I peeked out the door and saw that there were two police cars out there, presumably to tell the guys to get their hay bales off the road.

I'm not looking forward to the ~500 dump truck loads of dirt they said they'll need bring in so they can put in septic systems (we're on a huge ridge of clay that makes drainage difficult).

At this point, Ann thinks the developer is crazy because the housing market has crashed and there probably won't be anyone who can afford to buy his houses.

Comments

[quietann.livejournal.com]

re the last comment, mostly because sales are dead in our high-end move-up market (800K to 1+ million.) If no one can qualify for credit at the low end, that keeps others from being able to move up. OTOH the new house on Barron Court is apparently sold.

OTOH Sherry did say that new houses are moving better... still anemic, but better than used houses.

[deguspice.livejournal.com]

My guess is they decided to start the project and put in the road and perhaps a house or two before their permit expires.

[marmota.livejournal.com]

I really don't get that. Obvious (lack of) quality issues of new
construction over old construction aside, isn't it smarter to get
something where it's a known factor how it will settle and weather?

[deguspice.livejournal.com]

A new house can be spec'd to the way you want it, it won't need any maintenance (for a little while), it's shiny and new, it has big closets, it has the latest features, ...

[quietann.livejournal.com]

Basically what Ben said. This info came from our friend in San Diego who is a realtor handling the middle to high end communities.

Almost everyone I know who has bought a "used" house has put major money into repairs, remodeling, and upgrades within the first couple of years. (e.g. my brother and his wife have a house now; they have owned it for 3 months but will not move in for at least another month because of renovations, painting, etc. Also see whuffle's adventures in an older home with numerous issues not caught by their inspector.)

Some older houses also have asbestos, lead paint etc. to deal with.

With a new house, one puts these expenses off for at least a few years. There are also some cultural groups that won't buy houses lived in by your average American because they consider our houses to be dirty, especially if we've had pets. This is even after professional cleaning etc.

[mangosteen]

With a new house, one puts these expenses off for at least a few years. There are also some cultural groups that won't buy houses lived in by your average American because they consider our houses to be dirty, especially if we've had pets. This is even after professional cleaning etc.

I've never heard that, but I certainly grant it as a possibility. Could you be more specific?

[quietann.livejournal.com]

In Southern California, typically Chinese and Indian immigrants strongly prefer new houses. This does not mean they always buy new; it's just a preference.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

Also -- new houses have Title Five compliant septic systems. There's a small, older house down the street from us that cannot be sold because there is no way to bring the septic system into compliance; the lot is basically all wetlands except where the house is, so it can't even be sold as a teardown. It's been more or less abandoned for years, though someone was using it as their legal address a few years back, possibly so they could enroll their child or grandchild in Andover schools. The board of health inspected it and found it to be unlivable. These days, someone is trying to get it fixed up as a rental.

Septic?

[paradoox.livejournal.com]

Some of us are more concerned about Septic vs. non-Septic rather than new versus old.

Chez Wood was built in 1984 (on about 1/2 acre of land in Newton). We bought it in 1990 and really did nothing (other than cleaning) before moving in. We painted the rooms over the next year. In 1992 we put the addition on which involved a kitchen remodel to get access to the new family room (rather than because the kitchen needed remodeling). We've then refinished the floor. Eventually we painted the outside (needs it again), replaced the basement carpet with "wood", and put in a new heating system. We're now in the process of looking for new kitchen applicances to replace the now 23 year old appliances. We are probably getting close to needing a new roof.

Re: Septic?

[quietann.livejournal.com]

Out where we live, it would not be cost effective to put in sewer lines at this point. With the really large lots, people have room for a properly designed septic system, but the little house is quite old and built before there were many, if any, laws about septic systems. Areas of town that are more dense have town sewer service.

People complain about septic systems, but we've had absolutely no problems with ours. They do need maintenance every two years or so, and it's essential to have a system big enough for the amount of output.

Re: Septic?

[hatchepsut.livejournal.com]

my folks have a septic system.

there was talk of bringing in chemically treated waters and proper sewer lines. my dad was terrified because it would cost so much to do. but if he didn't do it, the house would never sell.

luckily the sewer lines have been redirected for the time being.

with that said, their water is the most disgusting sludge i've ever seen, i personally don't think it's fit to drink, and i wouldn't want to shower in it.

Re: Septic?

[quietann.livejournal.com]

We are lucky in that the town *did* run water lines out our way, back in the days when no one thought badly of septic systems. Our town water is really good, for all that it gets pulled out of a big river (but one without a lot of commercial boat traffic.)

We actually found a well on the property -- uncovered!!!! -- when we had some brush cleared a few years back. No doubt it was the water source, before the water lines went in. Downhill from the septic system, so there's no way we'd ever use it. There's now a big makeshift cover on the darn thing, and we've notified all the neighbors that we have a kid-unfriendly hazard on the property.

Re: Septic?

[hatchepsut.livejournal.com]

i remember stumbling across an abandoned well in the woods near my folks place when i was kid.

luckily for me it was half collapsed and filled in. knowing my and my friend we would tried to climb down and been in a very kid-unfriendly situation.

there was a lot of neat old stuff out there. it had been a farm at some point that the woods just completely took over.

as i recall we decided there was a monster that lived there, and it kept us from going in any of areas with questionable walls and roted bits of "roof". thank goodness for those monsters!

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

at least it's only 6 houses.

if you were mean, you could photograph everything, look for violations... ;)

take pictures of your property line/street etc, they might come a calling one early morning and make horrible mistakes too. hopefully not, but that happened to "me" a few times (really, my dad's property, man, those people were dumb - short form of one of the mistakes - they couldn't get the side of the street correct, so they just started cutting into the front lawn of an obviously lived in house. $5000+ damages in the first minute.

#

[xthread.livejournal.com]

At this point, Ann thinks the developer is crazy because the housing market has crashed and there probably won't be anyone who can afford to buy his houses.

Probably so, but, hey, new housing stock...

[gravitrue.livejournal.com]

In a really bad way. This is McMansion suburban sprawl.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

Indeed. One acre zoning, and with one exception, I have yet to see a McMansion in our area that I'd want to live in. They all have severe edifice complex, and are not very well built to start with. Nonetheless, they sell in the high 6 figures or low 7 figures.

[madbodger.livejournal.com]

Yep, as long as there are rich stupid people, crap like this will be built. Except in Vermont,
where Act 250 goes a long way toward keeping greedy developers in line.

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

So how long til the uncreated (so far) road will need a traffic light? And the first traffic accident that wams someone into your yard? (what part of your property will be across from the new intersection - your barn, the yard next to your barn, your front door, the big open space/yard where your grapes are/etc?

[quietann.livejournal.com]

There won't be a traffic light for a 6-house cul-de-sac subdivision. (The beaver dam prevents a through road to Rt. 133, and no developer would prefer houses on a busy cut-through road over a cul-de-sac anyway.)

The road will be across from the orchard, towards the west. It's a terrible place to put a road; it's already nearly a blind curve. But it's good enough to meet the town safety standards. If someone comes flying out of there, they will land in a big patch of poison ivy and hit our stone wall.

I think the reason this PO'd so many people is that they were deceived by the property owner. I don't think anyone would have objected to two houses on that property.

[c1.livejournal.com]

Interestingly at work, I get to hear about what's going on with forests in the rest of the world, and how China and India are trying to plant millions of hectares of trees and the like. (These days, somehow, people seem to be paying more attention to what denuding the land actually does.)
But what I ironically don't get to hear about is how America is being deforested by housing developers. I was back in Dallas about a year and a half, and over about three miles, where there were only grazing pastures, now there are starter castles.

[cogitationitis.livejournal.com]

I should point out that pastureland and housing tracts probably have the same CO2 consumption, as most people tend to plants trees & bushes in addition to the grass, and people produce less methane than cows/sheep.

I believe this particular tract was at least partially open--remember, 100 years ago this area was all farmland, barring the swamps. It's the blind corner that's most of the problem.

[c1.livejournal.com]

People plant trees and bushes, but people also drive cars and SUVs, run their tivos and their air conditioners. The carbon footprints are not the same at all.
Plus there's the fact that your lawnmower and snowblowers have almost no environmental controls.** According to the California Air Resources Board, a 2006 lawnmower engine produced 93 times more smog-forming emissions than a 2006 automobile. The EPA has stated that "one old gas powered lawn mower running for an hour emits as much pollution as driving 650 miles in a 1992 model automobile."

**Catalytic converters are now being required by California on new lawnmower engines under 50 horsepower.
http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Lawn-Mower-Pollution.htm

[quietann.livejournal.com]

This particular piece of land was completely wooded, except for where the beaver pond is.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

well, I am not happy when the trees go. The developers will "scrape" a lot for their own convenience rather than leave trees on it. The newest McMansion in our area is being built on a lot that formerly contained a nice ranch-style house and 15 or 20 large, fully grown trees. The developers took down all but one of them. Grrrr.

China/India do not assume that there is a limitless supply of oil, so they have more undeveloped land and dense housing for almost everyone. I would be very unhappy in a high-rise apartment block with all the smells and noises of the neighbors close at hand. Spoiled? OK, yes. (But bear in mind that I did not choose our house; Ben chose it when he was working at a company that was nearby, and had no reason to expect he would be laid off only a couple of years later.)

[c1.livejournal.com]

You're fairly right about China's population living in cities: this is where their explosive economic growth is coming from: farmers sending their kids to work lucrative jobs in factories, where they receive OTJ training.
In India, about 3/5 of the population lives on farmland. Unfortunately, the roads are so poorly maintained that 40% of the harvest rots en route to market.
And for some reason, India's not as forested as it could be. Part of that is the massive bureaucracy that they call a government (you think the Republican'ts and the Demoncrats can't agree on anything? India's gummint is comprised of 19 different, eternally bickering parties) inhibits actual action on things like that. China, by comparison, has a very nimble government: they want to plant massive numbers of trees, and it's getting done.

The irony about builders in the States clearing the land before building on it is that a. it's not hard to cut only the trees that get in the way of the actual house and leave the rest, b. it costs way more to go back and plant trees to replace the ones that got axed, and c. houses are more valuable when they have "old-growth" trees on the property. The Journal of Light Construction did an article on tree preservation in construction zones, and that was their very conclusion. I guess this guy doesn't read JLC.